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Re: Is TightVNC dead?

Mark Foley
Wow! I'll check out cygwin. Does that work like Xming?

--Mark

-----Original Message-----

> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> From: Jim <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:18:56 -0700
>
> +1 for X-Windows
>
> The X-Windows/X-Term architecture has much more flexibility than Patrick
> described and has been part of the *nix world for a long time.  As he
> says, X is more efficient than VNC across a network since it sends only
> events and not graphics.  You can have multiple displays running
> remotely from a single Ubuntu system each one independent of the others
> - I think that's an additional license fee on Windows.
>
> X-Windowing for Windows is available as part of cigwin:
>
> http://x.cygwin.com/
>
> For security reasons, remote sessions have been removed from the default
> configuration (on Linux and Windows) for a number of years, but I think
> can still be enabled with a simple configuration change.
>
> If you're currently running within X then the -X option to ssh will let
> you run graphical programs remotely while viewing the windows on your
> display - I didn't know that putty would do the same, but I'm not surprised.
>
> There are other VNC-like technologies that are used as part of
> virtualization on Linux - don't really follow that world, but a little
> research should find them.
>
>
> On 11/18/2015 04:09 PM, Patrick Shoaf wrote:
> > Actually, there is a way to display apps running on Linux on a Windows
> > machine.
> > Install on windows putty and Cygwin-X.  Configure putty to allow X11
> > forwarding. Start your Cygwin-X server session, SSH into you Linux box
> > with putty, and start your application.  Ex Firefox&  I use the & to
> > put the program in the back ground and not tie up the SSH session.  
> > You will then see Firefox on your Windows desktop.  The application
> > will run and process on the Linux Box, files will be uploaded and
> > downloaded and stored on the Linux Box, only the display, keyboard and
> > mouse data will traverse any network.  Better performance than using
> > VNC, as you are only transferring the window data, not the entire
> > desktop data.  Less data to transfer, faster performance.
> >
> > On on local 1G LAN, there is minimal difference in performance between
> > RDP and VNC.  Difference is more in features, RDP provides, Drive
> > mapping, printer mapping, clipboard sharing, etc. VNC provides File
> > Transfer and some clipboard sharing.  VNC is the best solution for
> > support on a network.
> >
> > *Patrick Shoaf*
> > IT Special Projects
> > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> > *Model Cleaners, Uniforms & Apparel
> > Model Ohio Enterprises dba The Fussy Cleaners*
> > 100 Third Street
> > Charleroi, PA 15022
> > Direct Dial: 724-565-2033
> > 724-489-4386 Fax
> > www.modelcleaners.com <http://www.modelcleaners.com>
> > www.modelapparel.com <http://www.modelapparel.com>
> > www.modeluniforms.com <http://www.modeluniforms.com>
> > www.thefussycleaners.com <http://www.thefussycleaners.com>
> >
> > On 11/18/2015 5:48 PM, Russell Reagan wrote:
> >> Only my opinion, but VNC is not in the same ballpark as Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services or similar products (Citrix, etc). VNC has its place, typically more in remote administration of Linux/Mac or remote controlling PCs for desktop support. RDS is built for application delivery even over slow connections. VNC is fine for quick system administration activities, but if I had to use it to perform my day to day job on a remote computer all day long, I would find a different job. There is a big difference in what RDS/Citrix are doing and what VNC does.
> >>
> >> As for securing the connection, if this is an office environment, is there a VPN in place? A VPN with two-factor authentication will be more secure than anything where you are forwarding ports that are open to the entire internet.
> >>
> >> What kinds of Windows 10 security issues are you trying to overcome? I am not aware of anything bad enough to warrant changing platforms. If you are switching because you like Linux better, that's fine. But Windows is pretty secure if it's configured properly, so I am curious what you mean by this.
> >>
> >> The short answer is, there is no Linux equivalent of RDS/Citrix. Well, maybe a VDI solution like VMWare View would get you close, but for that you are talking major IT infrastructure needs, and the large cost that comes with it.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My apologies for expressing my frustration. Yes, I've been frustrated. I've had
> >>> other private responses to this message with most people saying everything works
> >>> just fine for them, mature product, etc. I understand low list traffic being
> >>> relatied to a lack of problems, which is good. At the same time, I'm not getting
> >>> responses to my questions, hence my irritating post. No offense intended.
> >>>
> >>> My problem is everything doesn't work just fine for me which is why I turned to
> >>> this list for help.  Perhaps it's the combination of tools I'm using.  Perhaps no
> >>> one knows the answer.  I've posted questions, but have not received much
> >>> feedback.  I will restate my issues here and hopefully people with knowledge
> >>> about these things can help.
> >>>
> >>> My setup is using TightVNC viewer 2.7.10 on Windows 7 via ssvnc 1.0.30 to
> >>> connect to x11vnc server 0.9.13 on Ubuntu 14.04.
> >>>
> >>> 1.  As 'Terry' pointed out, ssvnc and x11vnc are by a different author
> >>> (http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/ssvnc.html).  In the end, these products may be
> >>> where my issues are, but I cannot find anywhere to ask questions, report bugs,
> >>> etc. for these tools.  I've sent Mr. Runge an email directly, but no response.
> >>> Does anyone have any idea where I can get support for x11vnc and ssvnc? Perhaps
> >>> it is Karl Runge who has lost interest in maintaining these tools and I need to
> >>> find other solutions.
> >>>
> >>> 2.  With my configuration, I've found that about 60% of the time the parenthesis
> >>> keys auto-repeat -- and only those keys.  If I type a ')' I can expect my line
> >>> to fill with those keys until I press another key.  This may be a problem with
> >>> x11vnc.  Has anyone else experienced this problem? If people on this list are
> >>> not using x11vnc as the server, what are you using?
> >>>
> >>> How do you handle secure connections?
> >>>
> >>> 3.  Where are config settings for TightVNC viewer kept on Windows? Whenever I
> >>> start tightVNC through ssvnc I have to set my scaling, full-screen mode and
> >>> local cursor every time.  I can save the settings, but they are never reloaded.
> >>> If I start tightVNC standalone (no ssvnc) my settings are remembered.  I need to
> >>> understand where tighVNC is looking for these settings so I can go there and fix
> >>> this problem.
> >>>
> >>> Objective: I am experimenting with this in preparation for potentially getting
> >>> rid of Windows at the office (due to security issues with Windows 10) and using
> >>> Ubuntu workstations instead.  Staff is currently able to log into their Windows
> >>> workstations from home using Remote Desktop Connection.  I am looking at VNC to
> >>> replace RDC when their work computer is Ubuntu.  The problem is that I cannot
> >>> expect non-technical users to redo their viewer settings each time they connect,
> >>> nor could they live with repeating parentheses keys.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any help you can give me.
> >>>
> >>> --Mark
> >>>
> >>>> From: Jerry Wetherholt<[hidden email]>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> >>>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:21:15 -0600
> >>>> To:[hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> mark maybe yiu sould ask why is list dead? maybe it had issues on server or
> >>>> something if that nature instead of bashing you frustrations out in open.
> >>>> easier to ask question than to be very agressive towards list and strangers
> >>>>
> >>>> jerry
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wow this is the least active list I've subscribed to. Are there really not that
> >>>>> many people interested in VNC? Seem like with tele-commuting all the rage there
> >>>>> should be a lot of interest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How about some info on resources? Is there a place to report bugs for TightVNC?
> >>>>> Is there a place to report issues with x11vnc? A listserve for x11vnc? Likewise
> >>>>> such resources for ssvnc?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Has development on these VNC tools generally stopped? If so, I'd rather not use
> >>>>> something that will get more obsolescent as time goes on. Perhaps I'll redirect
> >>>>> my efforts to RealVNC or some other product.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thoughts? Opinions?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel XDK.
> >>>>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> >>>>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2-D/3-D games for multiple OSs.
> >>>>> Then get your creation into app stores sooner, with many ways to monetize.
> >>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> >>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> > To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>
> --
> Jim Redman
> (505) 662 5156 x85
> http://www.ergotech.com
>

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Re: : Configuring TVNC on Windows with tunneling [formerly Is TightVNC dead"]

Mark Foley
In reply to this post by Dave Ihnat
Dave, thanks, see comments interleaved ...

--Mark

-----Original Message-----

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:22:16 -0600
> From: Dave Ihnat <[hidden email]>
> To: Mark Foley <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: : Configuring TVNC on Windows with tunneling [formerly Is
>  TightVNC dead"]
>
> I'm only going to address the security aspects of your post...
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:48:12AM -0500, Mark Foley wrote:
> > I've looked at a dozen Windows/VNC-viewer/putty sites.  All show
> > how to do it as a two-step process: run putty, then run tightVNC.
> > 2 steps for the user is not desirable.
>
> Perhaps not, but it is what you're going to have to deal with, one way
> or another.  However, with a VPN-based solution, it's usually simple--the
> end user only needs to start the VPN client (analogies are slippery, but
> I tell the clients to think of this as making a call to the company),
> then start the remote desktop of choice (I tell them to consider this
> dialing an extension. Hokey, but they seem to understand it.)  They then
> have to disconnect the remote desktop, and terminate the VPN.

I think I just sent a message about this. Yes, VPN might be the way to go. I
will explore further. The organization resists this two-step process and there is
the requirement to have the VPN client software on any computer that might need
to connect -- not as clean as simply clicking on "Remote Desktop Connection".
Previous Sysadmin tried VPN 5 years ago and had to remove it.

> I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but this is important.
> For security, you want a VPN.  Using PuTTY, or any other SSH client,
> is a low-end, low- or no-cost solution, but it's too fragile and
> administration-heavy for business use, requires poking holes in your
> firewall, etc.  There are a lot of other reasons it's not optimal.
> Don't get me wrong; it *works*, and I use it to support individuals
> (friends, family, associates).

Use of RDC (and future VNC) is rare by staff.  Not sure why ssl/ssh would be
"fragile".

>
> > I'll need to find some more help if using putty because 22 is only
> > open to 1 admin
>
> Actually, I strongly urge anyone opening a port on their firewall for SSH
> to move to a non-standard port, e.g., 2222.  Before someone starts
> screaming "that's just security through obscurity", hear me out.  Most of
> the door-knocking attacks on SSH don't bother with any other port (for one
> thing, scanning for a SSH client gets expensive if you have to look at a
> lot of ports).  Simply moving the port precludes a *lot* of the automated
> scripted attacks.

I totally agree with you on the "security through obscurity" point.  I've had
this same debate with someone regarding URLs.  You are right, most half-hearted
hackers will try port 22 first, but so will most serious hackers and they'll
move on checking other ports and other vulernabilities.  I use 22 as a sort-of
honeypot.  I have firewall rules and a cron script that looks for 10 failed port
22 attempts within on minute, then block that IP completely.  That shuts down
the serious hackers from even being able to try other ports (which I may not be
totally confident about trapping).

> Moreover, if you pick an unused range, you can then use incremental ports
> to provide access to multiple targets on the LAN.

So, "poking pinholes" in the firewall! :)

> All that said, I still don't *recommend* it.  Too many pinholes in the
> firewall rules, too much interrelated configuration and no auditing.  Get a
> real firewall with VPN support.

Actually, yes there is auditing. Not to repeat my previous posting, but all
attempted logins are logged and if too many, the remote IP is blocked.

> > My current Windows/TightVNC setup connects to port 1901 on the
> > firewall which redirects to 5900 on the VNCserver.
>
> Uh...really not happy-making.  You effectively have no security.

Well, yes.  x11vnc on the Linux server is set to -unixpw to require login, then
the Cinnamon desktop has a screen saver timeout requiring login as well.  All
these logins attempts are logged and monitored.  I'm doing the VNC through a ssl
tunnel.  So, there is sufficient security, I think.

>
> Cheers,
> --
> Dave Ihnat
> [hidden email]
>

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Re: Is TightVNC dead?

Jim Redman
In reply to this post by Mark Foley
Mark,

On 11/19/2015 09:01 AM, Mark Foley wrote:
> Wow! I'll check out cygwin. Does that work like Xming?

Either one should be fine.  They're both ports of X.org source.  I don't
have much personal experience with either.

Xming seems to be very user friendly and seems to have some integration
with ssh.  As others have said, ssh may not be the best solution but it
is easy - especially for testing.  Somewhat depends on how
paranoid/diligent you are.  I have ssh open on the few VPS's I use (you
have to have some way into them).  It's one port and one piece of
software to keep up to date, but there have been a couple of zero-days
recently.

Jim

>
> --Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
>> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
>> From: Jim <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:18:56 -0700
>>
>> +1 for X-Windows
>>
>> The X-Windows/X-Term architecture has much more flexibility than Patrick
>> described and has been part of the *nix world for a long time.  As he
>> says, X is more efficient than VNC across a network since it sends only
>> events and not graphics.  You can have multiple displays running
>> remotely from a single Ubuntu system each one independent of the others
>> - I think that's an additional license fee on Windows.
>>
>> X-Windowing for Windows is available as part of cigwin:
>>
>> http://x.cygwin.com/
>>
>> For security reasons, remote sessions have been removed from the default
>> configuration (on Linux and Windows) for a number of years, but I think
>> can still be enabled with a simple configuration change.
>>
>> If you're currently running within X then the -X option to ssh will let
>> you run graphical programs remotely while viewing the windows on your
>> display - I didn't know that putty would do the same, but I'm not surprised.
>>
>> There are other VNC-like technologies that are used as part of
>> virtualization on Linux - don't really follow that world, but a little
>> research should find them.
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/2015 04:09 PM, Patrick Shoaf wrote:
>>> Actually, there is a way to display apps running on Linux on a Windows
>>> machine.
>>> Install on windows putty and Cygwin-X.  Configure putty to allow X11
>>> forwarding. Start your Cygwin-X server session, SSH into you Linux box
>>> with putty, and start your application.  Ex Firefox&  I use the & to
>>> put the program in the back ground and not tie up the SSH session.
>>> You will then see Firefox on your Windows desktop.  The application
>>> will run and process on the Linux Box, files will be uploaded and
>>> downloaded and stored on the Linux Box, only the display, keyboard and
>>> mouse data will traverse any network.  Better performance than using
>>> VNC, as you are only transferring the window data, not the entire
>>> desktop data.  Less data to transfer, faster performance.
>>>
>>> On on local 1G LAN, there is minimal difference in performance between
>>> RDP and VNC.  Difference is more in features, RDP provides, Drive
>>> mapping, printer mapping, clipboard sharing, etc. VNC provides File
>>> Transfer and some clipboard sharing.  VNC is the best solution for
>>> support on a network.
>>>
>>> *Patrick Shoaf*
>>> IT Special Projects
>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> *Model Cleaners, Uniforms & Apparel
>>> Model Ohio Enterprises dba The Fussy Cleaners*
>>> 100 Third Street
>>> Charleroi, PA 15022
>>> Direct Dial: 724-565-2033
>>> 724-489-4386 Fax
>>> www.modelcleaners.com <http://www.modelcleaners.com>
>>> www.modelapparel.com <http://www.modelapparel.com>
>>> www.modeluniforms.com <http://www.modeluniforms.com>
>>> www.thefussycleaners.com <http://www.thefussycleaners.com>
>>>
>>> On 11/18/2015 5:48 PM, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>> Only my opinion, but VNC is not in the same ballpark as Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services or similar products (Citrix, etc). VNC has its place, typically more in remote administration of Linux/Mac or remote controlling PCs for desktop support. RDS is built for application delivery even over slow connections. VNC is fine for quick system administration activities, but if I had to use it to perform my day to day job on a remote computer all day long, I would find a different job. There is a big difference in what RDS/Citrix are doing and what VNC does.
>>>>
>>>> As for securing the connection, if this is an office environment, is there a VPN in place? A VPN with two-factor authentication will be more secure than anything where you are forwarding ports that are open to the entire internet.
>>>>
>>>> What kinds of Windows 10 security issues are you trying to overcome? I am not aware of anything bad enough to warrant changing platforms. If you are switching because you like Linux better, that's fine. But Windows is pretty secure if it's configured properly, so I am curious what you mean by this.
>>>>
>>>> The short answer is, there is no Linux equivalent of RDS/Citrix. Well, maybe a VDI solution like VMWare View would get you close, but for that you are talking major IT infrastructure needs, and the large cost that comes with it.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My apologies for expressing my frustration. Yes, I've been frustrated. I've had
>>>>> other private responses to this message with most people saying everything works
>>>>> just fine for them, mature product, etc. I understand low list traffic being
>>>>> relatied to a lack of problems, which is good. At the same time, I'm not getting
>>>>> responses to my questions, hence my irritating post. No offense intended.
>>>>>
>>>>> My problem is everything doesn't work just fine for me which is why I turned to
>>>>> this list for help.  Perhaps it's the combination of tools I'm using.  Perhaps no
>>>>> one knows the answer.  I've posted questions, but have not received much
>>>>> feedback.  I will restate my issues here and hopefully people with knowledge
>>>>> about these things can help.
>>>>>
>>>>> My setup is using TightVNC viewer 2.7.10 on Windows 7 via ssvnc 1.0.30 to
>>>>> connect to x11vnc server 0.9.13 on Ubuntu 14.04.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  As 'Terry' pointed out, ssvnc and x11vnc are by a different author
>>>>> (http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/ssvnc.html).  In the end, these products may be
>>>>> where my issues are, but I cannot find anywhere to ask questions, report bugs,
>>>>> etc. for these tools.  I've sent Mr. Runge an email directly, but no response.
>>>>> Does anyone have any idea where I can get support for x11vnc and ssvnc? Perhaps
>>>>> it is Karl Runge who has lost interest in maintaining these tools and I need to
>>>>> find other solutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  With my configuration, I've found that about 60% of the time the parenthesis
>>>>> keys auto-repeat -- and only those keys.  If I type a ')' I can expect my line
>>>>> to fill with those keys until I press another key.  This may be a problem with
>>>>> x11vnc.  Has anyone else experienced this problem? If people on this list are
>>>>> not using x11vnc as the server, what are you using?
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you handle secure connections?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  Where are config settings for TightVNC viewer kept on Windows? Whenever I
>>>>> start tightVNC through ssvnc I have to set my scaling, full-screen mode and
>>>>> local cursor every time.  I can save the settings, but they are never reloaded.
>>>>> If I start tightVNC standalone (no ssvnc) my settings are remembered.  I need to
>>>>> understand where tighVNC is looking for these settings so I can go there and fix
>>>>> this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Objective: I am experimenting with this in preparation for potentially getting
>>>>> rid of Windows at the office (due to security issues with Windows 10) and using
>>>>> Ubuntu workstations instead.  Staff is currently able to log into their Windows
>>>>> workstations from home using Remote Desktop Connection.  I am looking at VNC to
>>>>> replace RDC when their work computer is Ubuntu.  The problem is that I cannot
>>>>> expect non-technical users to redo their viewer settings each time they connect,
>>>>> nor could they live with repeating parentheses keys.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give me.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Jerry Wetherholt<[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:21:15 -0600
>>>>>> To:[hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mark maybe yiu sould ask why is list dead? maybe it had issues on server or
>>>>>> something if that nature instead of bashing you frustrations out in open.
>>>>>> easier to ask question than to be very agressive towards list and strangers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow this is the least active list I've subscribed to. Are there really not that
>>>>>>> many people interested in VNC? Seem like with tele-commuting all the rage there
>>>>>>> should be a lot of interest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about some info on resources? Is there a place to report bugs for TightVNC?
>>>>>>> Is there a place to report issues with x11vnc? A listserve for x11vnc? Likewise
>>>>>>> such resources for ssvnc?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has development on these VNC tools generally stopped? If so, I'd rather not use
>>>>>>> something that will get more obsolescent as time goes on. Perhaps I'll redirect
>>>>>>> my efforts to RealVNC or some other product.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts? Opinions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel XDK.
>>>>>>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
>>>>>>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2-D/3-D games for multiple OSs.
>>>>>>> Then get your creation into app stores sooner, with many ways to monetize.
>>>>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
>>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
>>>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
>>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>> --
>> Jim Redman
>> (505) 662 5156 x85
>> http://www.ergotech.com
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________
> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list

--
Jim Redman
(505) 662 5156 x85
http://www.ergotech.com


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Re: : Configuring TVNC on Windows with tunneling [formerly Is TightVNC dead"]

Dave Ihnat
In reply to this post by Mark Foley
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:32:57PM -0500, Mark Foley wrote:
> Dave, thanks, see comments interleaved ...

Ok...
> I think I just sent a message about this. Yes, VPN might be the way to go. I
> will explore further. The organization resists this two-step process
> and there is the requirement to have the VPN client software on any
> computer that might need to connect -- not as clean as simply clicking
> on "Remote Desktop Connection".  Previous Sysadmin tried VPN 5 years
> ago and had to remove it.

Not as clean.  Not as vulnerable, either.

One of the problems with VPN setups--especially IPSEC--is that there is the
need to install the software on the client's machine, and provide their
certificate.  This is at best an administrative burden, at worst a
nightmare.

One reason I've grown to like the WatchGuard appliances is they've gone
over to supporting SSL in a big way, (while still supporting IPSEC), and
you get a boatload of licenses with the appliance--25 SSL, 25 IPSEC,
several others I wouldn't use.

The appliance can participate in Windows Active Directory authentication
(e.g., link to the AD DC, create a Security Group for VPN users; anyone in
that group authenticates using their AD Domain login and password).
Deployment of the SSL VPN client is as simple as connecting to the
Internet-facing IP address on the firewall, login with your credentials,
and you can then download the SSL client for either Windows or OS X
directly from the firewall.

Installation is click-and-shoot--not options or decisions.  Once it's
installed, on their first login (again, using their AD credentials), the
client can be told to remember the login/password.

This model has made deployment as easy as a one-page guide for the end
user.

> Use of RDC (and future VNC) is rare by staff.  Not sure why ssl/ssh would be
> "fragile".

It's fragile because it depends on interlinked configuration on the
firewall, SSH client session, port forwarding conventions, etc.  In
practice, when *I* use it, it works--when non-technical clients use it,
invariably they'll do something to break one of the steps in the config.

> I totally agree with you on the "security through obscurity" point.
> I've had this same debate with someone regarding URLs.  You are right,
> most half-hearted hackers will try port 22 first, but so will most
> serious hackers and they'll move on checking other ports and other
> vulernabilities.

My logs show virtually nobody continues to search for SSH on other ports;
as you say, they have their list of vulnerabilities to search through.

> So, "poking pinholes" in the firewall! :)

Yep; not my favorite thing to do.

> Well, yes.  x11vnc on the Linux server ...

Sorry, I thought you were just running stock VNC 8-character password, and
totally missed the tunnel.

Cheers,
--
        Dave Ihnat
        [hidden email]

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RE: Is TightVNC dead?

Benjamin Evans
In reply to this post by Jim Redman
Jim, Mark,
a slightly out-of-sync contribution but HP's RGS is available for both Linux & Windows. It's free with HP's own workstations but I believe it can be licenced for other hardware. The performance is astonishing, far & away better than anything else I've ever tried, (which is most things), including RDP & Citrix HDX.  I use it daily at work & get performance over the network that's near indistinguishable from having the workstation in front of you. Yes, it handles OpenGL & DirectX. No, I don't have shares in HP ;)

Kind regards, Ben

> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?

> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:52:26 -0700
>
> Mark,
>
> On 11/19/2015 09:01 AM, Mark Foley wrote:
> > Wow! I'll check out cygwin. Does that work like Xming?
>
> Either one should be fine. They're both ports of X.org source. I don't
> have much personal experience with either.
>
> Xming seems to be very user friendly and seems to have some integration
> with ssh. As others have said, ssh may not be the best solution but it
> is easy - especially for testing. Somewhat depends on how
> paranoid/diligent you are. I have ssh open on the few VPS's I use (you
> have to have some way into them). It's one port and one piece of
> software to keep up to date, but there have been a couple of zero-days
> recently.
>
> Jim
>
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> >> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> >> From: Jim <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:18:56 -0700
> >>
> >> +1 for X-Windows
> >>
> >> The X-Windows/X-Term architecture has much more flexibility than Patrick
> >> described and has been part of the *nix world for a long time. As he
> >> says, X is more efficient than VNC across a network since it sends only
> >> events and not graphics. You can have multiple displays running
> >> remotely from a single Ubuntu system each one independent of the others
> >> - I think that's an additional license fee on Windows.
> >>
> >> X-Windowing for Windows is available as part of cigwin:
> >>
> >> http://x.cygwin.com/
> >>
> >> For security reasons, remote sessions have been removed from the default
> >> configuration (on Linux and Windows) for a number of years, but I think
> >> can still be enabled with a simple configuration change.
> >>
> >> If you're currently running within X then the -X option to ssh will let
> >> you run graphical programs remotely while viewing the windows on your
> >> display - I didn't know that putty would do the same, but I'm not surprised.
> >>
> >> There are other VNC-like technologies that are used as part of
> >> virtualization on Linux - don't really follow that world, but a little
> >> research should find them.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/18/2015 04:09 PM, Patrick Shoaf wrote:
> >>> Actually, there is a way to display apps running on Linux on a Windows
> >>> machine.
> >>> Install on windows putty and Cygwin-X. Configure putty to allow X11
> >>> forwarding. Start your Cygwin-X server session, SSH into you Linux box
> >>> with putty, and start your application. Ex Firefox& I use the & to
> >>> put the program in the back ground and not tie up the SSH session.
> >>> You will then see Firefox on your Windows desktop. The application
> >>> will run and process on the Linux Box, files will be uploaded and
> >>> downloaded and stored on the Linux Box, only the display, keyboard and
> >>> mouse data will traverse any network. Better performance than using
> >>> VNC, as you are only transferring the window data, not the entire
> >>> desktop data. Less data to transfer, faster performance.
> >>>
> >>> On on local 1G LAN, there is minimal difference in performance between
> >>> RDP and VNC. Difference is more in features, RDP provides, Drive
> >>> mapping, printer mapping, clipboard sharing, etc. VNC provides File
> >>> Transfer and some clipboard sharing. VNC is the best solution for
> >>> support on a network.
> >>>
> >>> *Patrick Shoaf*
> >>> IT Special Projects
> >>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>>
> >>> *Model Cleaners, Uniforms & Apparel
> >>> Model Ohio Enterprises dba The Fussy Cleaners*
> >>> 100 Third Street
> >>> Charleroi, PA 15022
> >>> Direct Dial: 724-565-2033
> >>> 724-489-4386 Fax
> >>> www.modelcleaners.com <http://www.modelcleaners.com>
> >>> www.modelapparel.com <http://www.modelapparel.com>
> >>> www.modeluniforms.com <http://www.modeluniforms.com>
> >>> www.thefussycleaners.com <http://www.thefussycleaners.com>
> >>>
> >>> On 11/18/2015 5:48 PM, Russell Reagan wrote:
> >>>> Only my opinion, but VNC is not in the same ballpark as Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services or similar products (Citrix, etc). VNC has its place, typically more in remote administration of Linux/Mac or remote controlling PCs for desktop support. RDS is built for application delivery even over slow connections. VNC is fine for quick system administration activities, but if I had to use it to perform my day to day job on a remote computer all day long, I would find a different job. There is a big difference in what RDS/Citrix are doing and what VNC does.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for securing the connection, if this is an office environment, is there a VPN in place? A VPN with two-factor authentication will be more secure than anything where you are forwarding ports that are open to the entire internet.
> >>>>
> >>>> What kinds of Windows 10 security issues are you trying to overcome? I am not aware of anything bad enough to warrant changing platforms. If you are switching because you like Linux better, that's fine. But Windows is pretty secure if it's configured properly, so I am curious what you mean by this.
> >>>>
> >>>> The short answer is, there is no Linux equivalent of RDS/Citrix. Well, maybe a VDI solution like VMWare View would get you close, but for that you are talking major IT infrastructure needs, and the large cost that comes with it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My apologies for expressing my frustration. Yes, I've been frustrated. I've had
> >>>>> other private responses to this message with most people saying everything works
> >>>>> just fine for them, mature product, etc. I understand low list traffic being
> >>>>> relatied to a lack of problems, which is good. At the same time, I'm not getting
> >>>>> responses to my questions, hence my irritating post. No offense intended.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My problem is everything doesn't work just fine for me which is why I turned to
> >>>>> this list for help. Perhaps it's the combination of tools I'm using. Perhaps no
> >>>>> one knows the answer. I've posted questions, but have not received much
> >>>>> feedback. I will restate my issues here and hopefully people with knowledge
> >>>>> about these things can help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My setup is using TightVNC viewer 2.7.10 on Windows 7 via ssvnc 1.0.30 to
> >>>>> connect to x11vnc server 0.9.13 on Ubuntu 14.04.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. As 'Terry' pointed out, ssvnc and x11vnc are by a different author
> >>>>> (http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/ssvnc.html). In the end, these products may be
> >>>>> where my issues are, but I cannot find anywhere to ask questions, report bugs,
> >>>>> etc. for these tools. I've sent Mr. Runge an email directly, but no response.
> >>>>> Does anyone have any idea where I can get support for x11vnc and ssvnc? Perhaps
> >>>>> it is Karl Runge who has lost interest in maintaining these tools and I need to
> >>>>> find other solutions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. With my configuration, I've found that about 60% of the time the parenthesis
> >>>>> keys auto-repeat -- and only those keys. If I type a ')' I can expect my line
> >>>>> to fill with those keys until I press another key. This may be a problem with
> >>>>> x11vnc. Has anyone else experienced this problem? If people on this list are
> >>>>> not using x11vnc as the server, what are you using?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you handle secure connections?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. Where are config settings for TightVNC viewer kept on Windows? Whenever I
> >>>>> start tightVNC through ssvnc I have to set my scaling, full-screen mode and
> >>>>> local cursor every time. I can save the settings, but they are never reloaded.
> >>>>> If I start tightVNC standalone (no ssvnc) my settings are remembered. I need to
> >>>>> understand where tighVNC is looking for these settings so I can go there and fix
> >>>>> this problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Objective: I am experimenting with this in preparation for potentially getting
> >>>>> rid of Windows at the office (due to security issues with Windows 10) and using
> >>>>> Ubuntu workstations instead. Staff is currently able to log into their Windows
> >>>>> workstations from home using Remote Desktop Connection. I am looking at VNC to
> >>>>> replace RDC when their work computer is Ubuntu. The problem is that I cannot
> >>>>> expect non-technical users to redo their viewer settings each time they connect,
> >>>>> nor could they live with repeating parentheses keys.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Jerry Wetherholt<[hidden email]>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:21:15 -0600
> >>>>>> To:[hidden email]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> mark maybe yiu sould ask why is list dead? maybe it had issues on server or
> >>>>>> something if that nature instead of bashing you frustrations out in open.
> >>>>>> easier to ask question than to be very agressive towards list and strangers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> jerry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wow this is the least active list I've subscribed to. Are there really not that
> >>>>>>> many people interested in VNC? Seem like with tele-commuting all the rage there
> >>>>>>> should be a lot of interest.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How about some info on resources? Is there a place to report bugs for TightVNC?
> >>>>>>> Is there a place to report issues with x11vnc? A listserve for x11vnc? Likewise
> >>>>>>> such resources for ssvnc?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Has development on these VNC tools generally stopped? If so, I'd rather not use
> >>>>>>> something that will get more obsolescent as time goes on. Perhaps I'll redirect
> >>>>>>> my efforts to RealVNC or some other product.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thoughts? Opinions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel XDK.
> >>>>>>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> >>>>>>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2-D/3-D games for multiple OSs.
> >>>>>>> Then get your creation into app stores sooner, with many ways to monetize.
> >>>>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> >>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> >>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >> --
> >> Jim Redman
> >> (505) 662 5156 x85
> >> http://www.ergotech.com
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> > To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>
> --
> Jim Redman
> (505) 662 5156 x85
> http://www.ergotech.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________
> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list

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Re: Is TightVNC dead?

Dave Ihnat
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:13:03PM +0100, Benjamin Evans wrote:
> Jim, Mark,a slightly out-of-sync contribution but HP's RGS is
> available...

If considering optional software, I recently had to look for a replacement
for Remote Desktop on Windows 7.  (There's a nasty bug that has been around
for quite a while--suddenly, a working Remote Desktop will stop working
with nothing more than a message saying it's stopped working.  Nothing
useful in event logs, and this is a "dead chicken" issue on the Internet.
FWIW, a "dead chicken" issue is one where a lot of people offer
indeterminate 'fixes' that amount to waving a dead chicken over the
monitor, but don't really do anything.)

I found Devolution's "Remote Desktop Manager Free"
(remotedesktopmanager.com).  It's head and shoulders above the stock
RDC, and purports to actually be free with registration (there is a
paid version).  I'm in the first week of using it, which is why I didn't
mention it--I have to finish testing, and determine if it really stays
free in all the signifcant ways after the first 30 days.

It has embedded native support for RDP, VNC, Putty, etc.; credential
repository; integrated VPN support; and add-ons.  I'm not really sure what
additional features you get with the paid version.

So far, it's been very decent, but as I said, I'm still in evaluation and
testing.  I have no affiliation with Devolutions.

Cheers,
--
        Dave Ihnat
        [hidden email]

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Re: : Configuring TVNC on Windows with tunneling [formerly Is TightVNC dead"]

Mark Foley
In reply to this post by Dave Ihnat
Dave, I really like your description of the Watchguard.  Pretty much the
opposite of my experience with the SonicWall and Fortinet.  I like the ability
to use the AD credentials.  Although still requiring software installation on
the client end, it sounds about as simple as it can get.  And, VPN requires
software installation on the client end too, so we're on that road anyway.  I'll
definitely keep this appliance in mind for further investigation.

THX --Mark

-----Original Message-----

> From: Dave Ihnat <[hidden email]>
> To: Mark Foley <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: : Configuring TVNC on Windows with tunneling [formerly Is
>  TightVNC dead"]
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:32:57PM -0500, Mark Foley wrote:
> > Dave, thanks, see comments interleaved ...
>
> Ok...
> > I think I just sent a message about this. Yes, VPN might be the way to go. I
> > will explore further. The organization resists this two-step process
> > and there is the requirement to have the VPN client software on any
> > computer that might need to connect -- not as clean as simply clicking
> > on "Remote Desktop Connection".  Previous Sysadmin tried VPN 5 years
> > ago and had to remove it.
>
> Not as clean.  Not as vulnerable, either.
>
> One of the problems with VPN setups--especially IPSEC--is that there is the
> need to install the software on the client's machine, and provide their
> certificate.  This is at best an administrative burden, at worst a
> nightmare.
>
> One reason I've grown to like the WatchGuard appliances is they've gone
> over to supporting SSL in a big way, (while still supporting IPSEC), and
> you get a boatload of licenses with the appliance--25 SSL, 25 IPSEC,
> several others I wouldn't use.
>
> The appliance can participate in Windows Active Directory authentication
> (e.g., link to the AD DC, create a Security Group for VPN users; anyone in
> that group authenticates using their AD Domain login and password).
> Deployment of the SSL VPN client is as simple as connecting to the
> Internet-facing IP address on the firewall, login with your credentials,
> and you can then download the SSL client for either Windows or OS X
> directly from the firewall.
>
> Installation is click-and-shoot--not options or decisions.  Once it's
> installed, on their first login (again, using their AD credentials), the
> client can be told to remember the login/password.
>
> This model has made deployment as easy as a one-page guide for the end
> user.
>
> > Use of RDC (and future VNC) is rare by staff.  Not sure why ssl/ssh would be
> > "fragile".
>
> It's fragile because it depends on interlinked configuration on the
> firewall, SSH client session, port forwarding conventions, etc.  In
> practice, when *I* use it, it works--when non-technical clients use it,
> invariably they'll do something to break one of the steps in the config.
>
> > I totally agree with you on the "security through obscurity" point.
> > I've had this same debate with someone regarding URLs.  You are right,
> > most half-hearted hackers will try port 22 first, but so will most
> > serious hackers and they'll move on checking other ports and other
> > vulernabilities.
>
> My logs show virtually nobody continues to search for SSH on other ports;
> as you say, they have their list of vulnerabilities to search through.
>
> > So, "poking pinholes" in the firewall! :)
>
> Yep; not my favorite thing to do.
>
> > Well, yes.  x11vnc on the Linux server ...
>
> Sorry, I thought you were just running stock VNC 8-character password, and
> totally missed the tunnel.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Dave Ihnat
> [hidden email]
>

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Re: Is TightVNC dead?

Mark Foley
In reply to this post by Benjamin Evans
Ben - thanks, I'll investigate.

--Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Evans <[hidden email]>
To: Jim <[hidden email]>, Mark Foley <[hidden email]>,
        "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: Is TightVNC dead?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:13:03 +0100

Jim, Mark,a slightly out-of-sync contribution but HP's RGS is available for both Linux & Windows. It's free with HP's own workstations but I believe it can be licenced for other hardware. The performance is astonishing, far & away better than anything else I've ever tried, (which is most things), including RDP & Citrix HDX.  I use it daily at work & get performance over the network that's near indistinguishable from having the workstation in front of you. Yes, it handles OpenGL & DirectX. No, I don't have shares in HP ;)

Kind regards,

Ben


> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:52:26 -0700
>
> Mark,
>
> On 11/19/2015 09:01 AM, Mark Foley wrote:
> > Wow! I'll check out cygwin. Does that work like Xming?
>
> Either one should be fine.  They're both ports of X.org source.  I don't
> have much personal experience with either.
>
> Xming seems to be very user friendly and seems to have some integration
> with ssh.  As others have said, ssh may not be the best solution but it
> is easy - especially for testing.  Somewhat depends on how
> paranoid/diligent you are.  I have ssh open on the few VPS's I use (you
> have to have some way into them).  It's one port and one piece of
> software to keep up to date, but there have been a couple of zero-days
> recently.
>
> Jim
>
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> >> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> >> From: Jim <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:18:56 -0700
> >>
> >> +1 for X-Windows
> >>
> >> The X-Windows/X-Term architecture has much more flexibility than Patrick
> >> described and has been part of the *nix world for a long time.  As he
> >> says, X is more efficient than VNC across a network since it sends only
> >> events and not graphics.  You can have multiple displays running
> >> remotely from a single Ubuntu system each one independent of the others
> >> - I think that's an additional license fee on Windows.
> >>
> >> X-Windowing for Windows is available as part of cigwin:
> >>
> >> http://x.cygwin.com/
> >>
> >> For security reasons, remote sessions have been removed from the default
> >> configuration (on Linux and Windows) for a number of years, but I think
> >> can still be enabled with a simple configuration change.
> >>
> >> If you're currently running within X then the -X option to ssh will let
> >> you run graphical programs remotely while viewing the windows on your
> >> display - I didn't know that putty would do the same, but I'm not surprised.
> >>
> >> There are other VNC-like technologies that are used as part of
> >> virtualization on Linux - don't really follow that world, but a little
> >> research should find them.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/18/2015 04:09 PM, Patrick Shoaf wrote:
> >>> Actually, there is a way to display apps running on Linux on a Windows
> >>> machine.
> >>> Install on windows putty and Cygwin-X.  Configure putty to allow X11
> >>> forwarding. Start your Cygwin-X server session, SSH into you Linux box
> >>> with putty, and start your application.  Ex Firefox&  I use the & to
> >>> put the program in the back ground and not tie up the SSH session.
> >>> You will then see Firefox on your Windows desktop.  The application
> >>> will run and process on the Linux Box, files will be uploaded and
> >>> downloaded and stored on the Linux Box, only the display, keyboard and
> >>> mouse data will traverse any network.  Better performance than using
> >>> VNC, as you are only transferring the window data, not the entire
> >>> desktop data.  Less data to transfer, faster performance.
> >>>
> >>> On on local 1G LAN, there is minimal difference in performance between
> >>> RDP and VNC.  Difference is more in features, RDP provides, Drive
> >>> mapping, printer mapping, clipboard sharing, etc. VNC provides File
> >>> Transfer and some clipboard sharing.  VNC is the best solution for
> >>> support on a network.
> >>>
> >>> *Patrick Shoaf*
> >>> IT Special Projects
> >>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >>>
> >>> *Model Cleaners, Uniforms & Apparel
> >>> Model Ohio Enterprises dba The Fussy Cleaners*
> >>> 100 Third Street
> >>> Charleroi, PA 15022
> >>> Direct Dial: 724-565-2033
> >>> 724-489-4386 Fax
> >>> www.modelcleaners.com <http://www.modelcleaners.com>
> >>> www.modelapparel.com <http://www.modelapparel.com>
> >>> www.modeluniforms.com <http://www.modeluniforms.com>
> >>> www.thefussycleaners.com <http://www.thefussycleaners.com>
> >>>
> >>> On 11/18/2015 5:48 PM, Russell Reagan wrote:
> >>>> Only my opinion, but VNC is not in the same ballpark as Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services or similar products (Citrix, etc). VNC has its place, typically more in remote administration of Linux/Mac or remote controlling PCs for desktop support. RDS is built for application delivery even over slow connections. VNC is fine for quick system administration activities, but if I had to use it to perform my day to day job on a remote computer all day long, I would find a different job. There is a big difference in what RDS/Citrix are doing and what VNC does.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for securing the connection, if this is an office environment, is there a VPN in place? A VPN with two-factor authentication will be more secure than anything where you are forwarding ports that are open to the entire internet.
> >>>>
> >>>> What kinds of Windows 10 security issues are you trying to overcome? I am not aware of anything bad enough to warrant changing platforms. If you are switching because you like Linux better, that's fine. But Windows is pretty secure if it's configured properly, so I am curious what you mean by this.
> >>>>
> >>>> The short answer is, there is no Linux equivalent of RDS/Citrix. Well, maybe a VDI solution like VMWare View would get you close, but for that you are talking major IT infrastructure needs, and the large cost that comes with it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My apologies for expressing my frustration. Yes, I've been frustrated. I've had
> >>>>> other private responses to this message with most people saying everything works
> >>>>> just fine for them, mature product, etc. I understand low list traffic being
> >>>>> relatied to a lack of problems, which is good. At the same time, I'm not getting
> >>>>> responses to my questions, hence my irritating post. No offense intended.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My problem is everything doesn't work just fine for me which is why I turned to
> >>>>> this list for help.  Perhaps it's the combination of tools I'm using.  Perhaps no
> >>>>> one knows the answer.  I've posted questions, but have not received much
> >>>>> feedback.  I will restate my issues here and hopefully people with knowledge
> >>>>> about these things can help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My setup is using TightVNC viewer 2.7.10 on Windows 7 via ssvnc 1.0.30 to
> >>>>> connect to x11vnc server 0.9.13 on Ubuntu 14.04.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1.  As 'Terry' pointed out, ssvnc and x11vnc are by a different author
> >>>>> (http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/ssvnc.html).  In the end, these products may be
> >>>>> where my issues are, but I cannot find anywhere to ask questions, report bugs,
> >>>>> etc. for these tools.  I've sent Mr. Runge an email directly, but no response.
> >>>>> Does anyone have any idea where I can get support for x11vnc and ssvnc? Perhaps
> >>>>> it is Karl Runge who has lost interest in maintaining these tools and I need to
> >>>>> find other solutions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2.  With my configuration, I've found that about 60% of the time the parenthesis
> >>>>> keys auto-repeat -- and only those keys.  If I type a ')' I can expect my line
> >>>>> to fill with those keys until I press another key.  This may be a problem with
> >>>>> x11vnc.  Has anyone else experienced this problem? If people on this list are
> >>>>> not using x11vnc as the server, what are you using?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you handle secure connections?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3.  Where are config settings for TightVNC viewer kept on Windows? Whenever I
> >>>>> start tightVNC through ssvnc I have to set my scaling, full-screen mode and
> >>>>> local cursor every time.  I can save the settings, but they are never reloaded.
> >>>>> If I start tightVNC standalone (no ssvnc) my settings are remembered.  I need to
> >>>>> understand where tighVNC is looking for these settings so I can go there and fix
> >>>>> this problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Objective: I am experimenting with this in preparation for potentially getting
> >>>>> rid of Windows at the office (due to security issues with Windows 10) and using
> >>>>> Ubuntu workstations instead.  Staff is currently able to log into their Windows
> >>>>> workstations from home using Remote Desktop Connection.  I am looking at VNC to
> >>>>> replace RDC when their work computer is Ubuntu.  The problem is that I cannot
> >>>>> expect non-technical users to redo their viewer settings each time they connect,
> >>>>> nor could they live with repeating parentheses keys.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Jerry Wetherholt<[hidden email]>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:21:15 -0600
> >>>>>> To:[hidden email]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> mark maybe yiu sould ask why is list dead? maybe it had issues on server or
> >>>>>> something if that nature instead of bashing you frustrations out in open.
> >>>>>> easier to ask question than to be very agressive towards list and strangers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> jerry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Mark Foley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wow this is the least active list I've subscribed to. Are there really not that
> >>>>>>> many people interested in VNC? Seem like with tele-commuting all the rage there
> >>>>>>> should be a lot of interest.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How about some info on resources? Is there a place to report bugs for TightVNC?
> >>>>>>> Is there a place to report issues with x11vnc? A listserve for x11vnc? Likewise
> >>>>>>> such resources for ssvnc?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Has development on these VNC tools generally stopped? If so, I'd rather not use
> >>>>>>> something that will get more obsolescent as time goes on. Perhaps I'll redirect
> >>>>>>> my efforts to RealVNC or some other product.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thoughts? Opinions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --Mark
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel XDK.
> >>>>>>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> >>>>>>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2-D/3-D games for multiple OSs.
> >>>>>>> Then get your creation into app stores sooner, with many ways to monetize.
> >>>>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> >>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>>> TightVNC mailing list,[hidden email]
> >>>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> >>> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
> >> --
> >> Jim Redman
> >> (505) 662 5156 x85
> >> http://www.ergotech.com
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> > To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
>
> --
> Jim Redman
> (505) 662 5156 x85
> http://www.ergotech.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________
> TightVNC mailing list, [hidden email]
> To change your subscription or to UNSUBSCRIBE, please visit
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vnc-tight-list
     

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Re: Is TightVNC dead?

Mark Foley
In reply to this post by Dave Ihnat
Dave - I've used RDC extensively for the past year (and RWW before that for
another 6 years) and haven't run into the problem you mentioned.  BUT! if the
devolution product you mentioned can do RDP *and* VNC (securely) it sounds like
a silver bullet to address all my needs! I'll check it out ASAP.

THX --Mark

-----Original Message-----

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:47:26 -0600
> From: Dave Ihnat <[hidden email]>
> To: Benjamin Evans <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Jim <[hidden email]>, Mark Foley <[hidden email]>,
>         "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:13:03PM +0100, Benjamin Evans wrote:
> > Jim, Mark,a slightly out-of-sync contribution but HP's RGS is
> > available...
>
> If considering optional software, I recently had to look for a replacement
> for Remote Desktop on Windows 7.  (There's a nasty bug that has been around
> for quite a while--suddenly, a working Remote Desktop will stop working
> with nothing more than a message saying it's stopped working.  Nothing
> useful in event logs, and this is a "dead chicken" issue on the Internet.
> FWIW, a "dead chicken" issue is one where a lot of people offer
> indeterminate 'fixes' that amount to waving a dead chicken over the
> monitor, but don't really do anything.)
>
> I found Devolution's "Remote Desktop Manager Free"
> (remotedesktopmanager.com).  It's head and shoulders above the stock
> RDC, and purports to actually be free with registration (there is a
> paid version).  I'm in the first week of using it, which is why I didn't
> mention it--I have to finish testing, and determine if it really stays
> free in all the signifcant ways after the first 30 days.
>
> It has embedded native support for RDP, VNC, Putty, etc.; credential
> repository; integrated VPN support; and add-ons.  I'm not really sure what
> additional features you get with the paid version.
>
> So far, it's been very decent, but as I said, I'm still in evaluation and
> testing.  I have no affiliation with Devolutions.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Dave Ihnat
> [hidden email]
>

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RE: Is TightVNC dead?

David Doster
In reply to this post by Dave Ihnat

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dave Ihnat [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 9:47 AM
>>To: Benjamin Evans
>>Cc: Jim; [hidden email]
>>Subject: Re: Is TightVNC dead?
>>
>>On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:13:03PM +0100, Benjamin Evans wrote:
>>> Jim, Mark,a slightly out-of-sync contribution but HP's RGS is
>>> available...
>>
>>If considering optional software, I recently had to look for a replacement for
>>Remote Desktop on Windows 7.

If we're going into non-VNC territory, I'll put in a plug for NetSupport, from PCI, Inc.  We've been using it here at the college for 15 years, and it's a pretty good product.  The "NetSupport School" product will even let you connect to several machines at once and show you thumbnails of each screen - our Professors use that in the computer labs, but it also works for wrangling servers.  

We've only used it with Windows here, so I can't speak for what it will or won't do on Linux or Mac (there is software for both, but I've never used it and am not sure what the capabilities are).  And I think they've also come out with Android and iOS apps for it too.  Haven't used those either.

 It's not free, but isn't horrendously expensive (at least not compared the the HP RGS pricing I saw yesterday after Benjamin's post).  

Dave Doster

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